Possible questions:
- How in control of our lives are we?
- Billy Pilgrim is a hero, a victim, or what?
- Is peace possible?
- Did KV succeed in bearing witness to the bombing of Dresden by using the unorthodox structure he chose? Why/why not?
- Where on the spectrum of "Rage, rage against the dying of the light" and "So it goes" do you fall?
- Poo-tee-weet? (Since nobody touched that one in either class today, I will be especially excited to see answers to that one.)
12 comments:
Well, during class I wanted to talk about Billy being a victim instead of a hero but I also want to mention the bird because it's interesting to me but it also freaks me out. Anyways, I think Billy is a victim. Not just of the war, but of circumstance, just like all the other people that were in the war. I hate how being a soldier seems to be something that is glorified and rewarded by people in society, as if being a soldier and fighting for your country is the best thing you could ever do. It bothers me because people always ignore the horrible side of being in war. These men (and women now, too, I guess) leave and come back scarred and traumatized but I feel like that stuff is just ignored. The whole time I was reading the novel, I felt so sorry for everyone in the war. The way that they're just thrown in there is so sad and honestly, they're all just victims of something that is not even their fault, and that is so horrible to me.
The "poo-tee-weet?" freaks me out. The way the bird shows up again at the very end, and the book just ends with that... it really gave me chills because no one had an answer for the bird. The book just ends with that question, and I feel like it symbolizes how no one really has an answer for war. People just ask and no one can ever say why. I feel like I am that bird. I always question why things like war have to exist, but there's never a straight answer because no one really knows an answer. I kind of feel like that's what I got out of that. I also remember how in the beginning that the narrator says his story will begin with "listen:".. so were we supposed to listen out for that? Maybe it was kind of foreshadowing, I do not know, but I think it is pretty interesting. :)
To start off, the question about how in control of our lives are we, I'd say we're fairly on top of that spectrum, towards free will. We have the power to do a lot of things now, the way we want to. We do not wait around for things to happen, mostly. Some people might, depending on the situation. For the most part, just based on my opinion I think we have the power to choose what we want to do in our lives and sometimes yes, we do things because of "fate," meaning we did not plan on it, it just came to us. Like many people in the Vietnam war, and everyone who was drafted. They did not expect it and they were forced. Whether they wanted to go or not, they had to because they were depended on to do so. And those people, they most likely suffered. To continue my point, I want to agree with Nora, I also think that Billy was a victim. It seemed to me as though he was traumatized, as probably many soldiers were at his time. We get all these views about war, about it being good and brave, but it really is not. Billy saw death, every day, and if not every day then mostly every day. He did not just see it, but he witnessed it in the most gruesome ways you can imagine. Like how Anacelia, if I'm not mistaken, mentioned that soldiers, they got blown up, they die in horrific ways, and I do think being around all that really screwed up some peoples minds, including Billy's and I think this can be proven in the book where Billy was a mental patient at a Veteran's hospital. It's stated that the other patients "come here voluntarily, alarmed by the outside world" (Vonnegut 100). I believe the reason they are so alarmed by the outside world is because of the war they had experienced three years earlier. They were so afraid of the world by then and were just "going crazy" as Billy was mentioned to be doing (Vonnegut). I strongly do think that peace is possible. It would be extremely difficult to get everyone trustworthy, but it is possible. We just have to stop these wars, stop the tremendous amount of violence that we act on. It really makes me angry to know that the big situations in our world, in our history, have been "solved" by war, by death, by blood. It isn't fair, not to the soldiers, and not to their families.
Going back to Mariana's mention of the psychiatric hospital, I thought one of the most powerful lines in the book occurred there. Rosewater says, "I think you guys are going to have to come up with a lot of wonderful new lies, or people just aren't going to want to go on living" (Vonnegut 101). His words reminded me of how patriotism may be viewed as a massive lie in order to recruit troops to die for their country. Because both Rosewater and Billy are experienced veterans of war, they will no longer accept the same old "lies" of patriotism that caused them to enlist and fight in the first place. It's fascinating how Rosewater seems to accept that there are no truths or an absolute truth that we can attain. Instead, he wryly asks for more deceit. Thus, Vonnegut reveals his absurdist views through this character. I am growing fond of this viewpoint on life. As a believer in science and empiricism rather than faith, I sometimes think I will never be spiritually content with any of the answers here on Earth. Maybe I'll have the chance to meet the Tralfamadorians, too. Maybe I'll pioneer my own religion that centers on evolution. To me, the very fact that we are all alive at this moment means that we are the best possible combination of genes that have ever existed. It is amazing to ponder over this fact. Your ancestors have given you the best gifts that they could. The rest is up to you. So, to answer the question of how much control we have over our lives, I say that it is both your responsibility and right to fully utilize the life you have been granted. If we give away our power to others, if we let them have sway over our thoughts and emotions, then we are no longer in control. But everything is in our power to change.
How in control of our lives are we? I personally think that we have control of our lives. Free will is in our hands. We get to decide as humans what gets to be of our lives. I feel like fate does exist, but many times where we end up in life is based on our decisions and free will. In the book, Slaughter house five, it showed the opposite of free will. Those people who were drafted did not go into war for that reason. Some went because of choice others were forced, the major it was forced. I think that when the soldiers were being drafted that is where Kurt Vonnegut gives out the idea that free will does not really exist. When Billy ends up with the Tralfamadorians it is not in his hands, since he did not plan to do so. It was not his free will to be time traveling. Billy seemed confused at first not knowing what to do; it was not planned. When choosing from "Rage, rage against the dying of the light" and "So it goes" on the spectrum I land in the middle. Going back on the comment that somebody mentioned in class, about the soldiers going to war but wanting to get out safe and so they will fight for the light, I agree. I agree that many times as humans that is what we tend to do..we are in search of how to survive. In the book "so it goes" repeats many times. I think that the reason for this is because since free will is not shown too much in the book it shows how things happen and many times we cannot change them and so life goes on. I also interpret this saying as Kurt telling the reader that the stories are too horrific to say. Being in war is not easy and it is not something that is easy to talk about either so the best way to sum up things without going too much into detail and remembering those horrifying memories in war it is easier to say "so it goes".
Our life is dictated entirely by our own free will. We have the free will to choose the choices we choose, however, people may believe that God has a predestined path for them. I disagree because our life's destiny has no relation to God. Sure, God may influence the choices we make and if we choose to make the right one. We, ultimately, have full control over our life, because free will entitles us to freedom over our life. Fate is just a superstition that is said to compensate for unfortunate events. People say "oh that happened for a reason" and "don't worry, God has special plans for you", but this is all a sham. People have the logic and thought to be able to dictate what is wrong and right, and if they choose to take the wrong choice, fate had nothing to do with that. Ultimately, Free will gives us full reign over our lives; there is no part that fate plays in determining the course of our life. All choice is is a step to pursue our goal, indeed there are things that get in the way and sidetrack us, if you want it chase after it, don't sit idly around waiting for fate to give it to you.
I don’t think that our world can live in peace. In today’s society there are many arguments between people, which end up hurting some. It is within our human instinct to fight, and create chaos until we ultimately make our points across. This is the reality in our society, and sadly we can’t seem to be able to follow the Tralfamadorians’ ideas when they said that when there is a problem they simply, “ignore them” (117). What Kurt Vonnegut is trying to say, is that ultimately there is no way of escaping conflict/war. There is no way for people to lower their ‘pride’ and simply ignore, which we can relate to Lazzaro. Even at war, he was already talking about how he is going to kill people in the future which shows how the cycle of hatred and war will be going around and around. I believe that the only possible way for us to become a peaceful world would be to live in a utopian society, which I hope it never happens. I also want to comment on the quote, “Poo-tee-weet?”. Just like Nora wrote on her comment I agree with her statement about how this symbolizes how no one really knows the reason for war. In a way when I read this comment, it sounded as if they were saying “Who are we”? To elaborate on that, the question is targeting the human race, and it is asking about, who are we in this world? What is our purpose on this world, and so on. The fact that this question raises so many questions, makes the reader wonder about the purpose of why certain things happen. It makes us wonder why war started. Not only that but the fact that the question came from a innocent, harmless animal shows how the human race is so self-center with achieving whichever purpose we have that sadly we don’t care what gets destroy in our way.
How in control of our lives are we? I personally believe that we don’t have much control in how we turn out to be. I believe in Billy’s life he was largely impacted by his father’s death in war. Where we are born into is out of our control and our parents influences are interest and beliefs. In some ways we believe that we have control but a lot of our choices are influenced by the things we experienced. I don’t remember the names of the songs we learned in class but one talked about how rich kids had the money to go to college in order to avoid being drafted into the war. But a lot of the non wealthy young men had no choice but to accept their draft. The situation you are put in my not be of your choosing but what you do with it is in your control. Billy knew about his life and did nothing to try to change it. It felt like he had no control because he knew how things would turn out. I personally believe that Billy should have taken advantage of his life by making a positive impact in the war even if he knew what was going to happen. This leads me to the question, where on the spectrum of "Rage, rage against the dying of the light" and "So it goes" do you fall? On the spectrum I stand by the statement “so it goes”. We all know that we are going to die someday and I’m just acknowledging it and accepting it. In class the question was asked “would you want to know when you die?” I know I would want to know because I know I’m going to die and if I’m able to no more about my death before it happens I would want to know. I might not want to alter it but it’s something that could change a person’s life. Billy Himself knew when and how he was going to die and maybe that’s why he was so careless in the war. I felt like Kurt Vonnegut made the war seem pointless and made this connection with the character of Paul Lazzaro. Paul Lazzaro never forgot about his revenge on Billy for causing Weary’s death. After so many years Lazzaro was unable to forgive and forget and instead fulfilled his pointless revenge. This connects to the question, is peace possible? Peace I don’t think is possible because we don’t live in a society like Tralfamadore where people have different opinions. Although we could all be tolerant of each other’s believes we choose not to. I think pride goes into people strong emotions behind their beliefs and reasoning. Paul Lazzaro saw that the revenge on Billy was necessary to his loyalty and responsibility. I wish peace was possible but we aren’t all born in the same environment; we grow up believing ideas we choose.
Hi. Well I wanted to start off by saying that I think that Billy was a hero even if he did not act like one. Just the fact that he participated in the war, even if he did not do anything productive he was still in it. Of course he did not really do anything to seem like he fought for his live or others, all those times he wanted to give up and just stop trying and die, portrayed him as a coward. But I also think that he was a victim, he went through many hardships. At the end he died. So it goes. KV in my opinion somewhat succeed in bearing witness to the bombing of Dresden by using the unorthodox structure he chose I think this because for me the novel not being in chronological order or at least some type of order made it very difficult for me to understand. I had to re-read some passages to understand what was going on. But on the other hand I think that KV choose this style to make one see how a soldier’s mind worked before, during, and after a war. The soldiers being traumatized and stressed showed through the style of the book. Their thoughts are all over, because they don’t know what to focus on since many dangerous things are happening at the same time. They don’t know what to pay attention to. This style helped me understand what the soldiers like Billy was thinking and how they processed everything. The bird at the end was unexpected, but it also the thought of hope came to my mind, usually a bird is the symbol for something positive or something superior. By the book ending with the bird scene makes me think that there is more after a war or someone’s death. I think the ‘so it goes’ could be connected with the bird. Birds fly and they go on in life without turning back. So there goes the bird.
How in control are we with our lives? I feel we have control of our lives to a certain extent. I do believe we have free will, and even if such a thing such as destiny or fate exist, that there are means to change them. Keeping this in mind, there is only so much that can be changed; after all, we are only human, and humans are fragile beings. Which is why there is only so much we can control. We cannot control in what circumstances we are born into. These make things difficult for us but surely not impossible. There are so many stories of humans doing what is believed to be impossible. Some hurdles are just to daunting of obstacles for one human alone. Which is why we may not have control over our lives completely, but with some help, we can control the whole future.
Is peace possible? I do not think peace will ever be possible. In order to reach peace, we must all agree on what is right and wrong. When have you seen humans ever agree so wholly on something? Not enough times. Just due to the fact that humans won't ever be able to agree with one another is proof enough that we will always fight and never attain true peace. If we do attain peace, it will be a false one of oppression and possibly a complete lie to the people who live within this utopia.
Where on the spectrum of "Rage, rage against the dying of the light" and "So it goes" do you fall? When looking at the spectrum, I suppose I lean more for “So it goes”. It just seems something that I could agree with more easily. The idea that when someone is dead they aren't really gone, they just aren't here now. It does sound a bit contradicting, but the idea makes sense. That one shouldn't be said when someone dies because – when you think about it – the dead are alive somewhere on the time stream being happy and living their moments with you. It is a more of a pleasant idea that I would like to agree with, but in all honesty I do not believe in so much. But when looking at where on the spectrum I fall, it is leaning towards “So it goes”.
I wanted to talk about the concept of fate versus free will. I believe our lives are played out by fate and not so much by free will. Here is the thing, yes we do have free will, I’ll agree to that but, like some people believe, I believe our lives are planned out by God. See, we think we have free will because the United States declares that we are given the free will to do as we please, which I can understand, but whether we think we are doing things because we have the free will to do so, God has already decided what choices we are going to make. We are given the impression there is free will, but because I strongly believe in my faith, our life and everything that happens to us is completely. Thomas had pointed out that some make their decisions because they want to do what God wants us to and while I agree that some do do this, it is not all the time. People don’t sit and contemplate for a long period of time about what they are going to say or what they are going to do, most of the time it just happens and that is because of fate. God has already planned out the decsions we are going to make in our lives and it is up to us to either believe in Him and fate or believe in free will. Billy didn’t choose to go or not to go with the aliens, it just sort of happened because it was his fate. Billy was forced to live when he had all intentions of giving up in the war, but he lived anyways because it was his fate and Roland’s fate to save him because being forced to do something is not free will; God directs our life and leaves us to fate because he has certain plans for everyone.
I think that everyone is in control of the things they do. We decide what we want to do with our lives and what will potentially affect us later. I think we have all the control of our lives. There are in some rare occasions where not everyone is in control of their loves but at the same time we are. Even though I think we are in control of our lives and what happens I do think fate plays a big role in our life. In the spectrum where fate was one of the ends and control was the other end I was more inclined towards the fate one. I do think we have control but that control is fate and it’s meant to be. I for one don’t think peace is possible like at all. As much as we try to make everyone happy there’s no way to ever have everyone completely satisfied. I believe more in the phrase so it goes. I think it goes head to head to fate and if something is meant to happen then so it goes would be the perfect phrase to say according to how I see it. -Zuri Vargas
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